Vicki Landers The episode delves deeper into how Vicki reimagined her professional life by moving out of her comfort zone, challenging traditional
Stacey is a certified trauma-informed holistic business and marketing coach.
Stacey supports her clients through the inner and outer work of marketing and getting visible, so they can show up confidently, share their gifts, serve their dream clients, and do more of what they love.
*What follows is an AI-generated transcript may not be 100% accurate.
Audra: welcome back to another episode of The Mess in the Middle. And today my special guest is Stacy Hailing from California. today we’re going to get into her story and how she’s showing up and how we can serve you today.
So welcome to the show, Stacy. Thanks for being here. Thanks
Stacey: so much for having me, Audra. I’m excited to be here. Good.
Audra: Good. So [00:01:00] let’s just hop in. Tell me what are you working on, where you’ve been, all that kind of good stuff. Yeah,
Stacey: so I’m a holistic business coach. my journey has evolved throughout the year since I’ve become a coach.
I actually started in corporate marketing and got into coaching in. 2014. It was 2014 or 2015 and it’s been a while. And then after I got my coaching certification, I combined the marketing background with the coaching two business coaching, but. What I’m skipping over is that whole first year where I was trying to figure out my niche and I was like, maybe I’m a life coach.
Maybe I’m a career coach, maybe I’m a business coach. And I dabbled to explore, which in the end was good for me. I really needed that, hands-on experience to decide. But yeah. But I’ve been a business coach, since 2016.
Audra: Good. Now, out of all of them, how do you find. If you were [00:02:00] to have to launch a coaching business today, versus, you’re back not the beginning of coaching, but before it really took off to what it is today.
Stacey: I. Totally. It’s so different. we did not have, I was on Instagram, but there wasn’t this like presence of coach type influencers in social media. It was a different world. and I really started grassroots. I started telling my network, my old coworkers and colleagues and my friends and family, Yeah. And now there’s so much. More of a focus online and I do think it is good to have both.
Like I come across a lot of people who are like, I’m gonna launch a coaching business, and then they just launch an Instagram account. that is not enough. Really. Oh, people often think like Instagram is how I get clients, and I think that’s a myth that’s been perpetuated by certain business coaches that teach Instagram.
But yeah, I think [00:03:00] starting today, I would still be doing some of that in-person offline strategies. Plus the online strategies. And honestly, it’s a way more competitive marketplace today. I think to, if I started today, I would really wanna hone in on my niche super specifically, and also hone in on, you know what I think I bring to the table that other people don’t.
I think it’s, we can’t just call ourselves life coaches or business coaches, anymore broad. We have to be more
Audra: specific. Too broad. yeah. Maybe it’s business coaches who help. Content creators. Totally. Or something Yeah. A little further down the long
And there’s a lot of ways to slice and dice it, right? Like I say, I’m a holistic business coach. I had a program that was for introverts and highly sensitive entrepreneurs. you could be a business coach for people just starting out, or people, further along in their journey ready to scale.
So yeah, there’s so many ways to [00:04:00] narrow it down.
Audra: and you can probably carve out a pretty decent audience size by even niching down to that.
Stacey: Yeah. Yeah. I know it, it’s counterintuitive, but niching down or niching down, however you wanna say, it will give you like, The greatest amount of success because it helps you speak to a very specific audience.
Otherwise, it’s just too broad and general.
Audra: I, maybe I’m one of the early ones, so I started in the online space in two, 2009. And back then you had to be a generalist. Yeah, because there were no specialists back then. social media was still too new. Websites were just starting to convert, let alone add a call to action or opt-ins or anything else.
Yeah, there was none of that back then. So being a generalist, I was able to get more business, especially in the early days because I could talk to each one of the different. Marketing channels. So it has [00:05:00] definitely served me, but I can see people coming in today how it would be too broad for them.
Stacey: Yeah, and I think maybe with business it’s a little bit different too. Like I think life, if you’re a life coach, you definitely wanna differentiate like who are you a life coach for? Who are you working for, right? But even in business, like you’re a generalist, and I’m a generalist in the fact that I’ve done a lot of marketing functions, that’s actually a benefit to someone in business because they don’t have the budget to hire an Instagram person, hire a.
Facebook ads person or Yeah, exactly. Hire a blog manager. they don’t have. That. So this, I think, the generalist role can still help in a lot of ways, but then you probably niche in other ways, like with your audience. Yeah, I do.
Audra: I call myself,more like a T- marketer.
Do you know what that is? Yeah, I’ve heard of it before. Okay. Yeah. So for those of you listening that haven’t heard that term before, a T-marketer is, across the top, everything, right? So it could be ss e o, it could be [00:06:00] content, it could be social media, web design. So you’ve got quite a broad, level of skill, but then the stem of the T is things that you’re like, Expert.
Expert at. if I rated each one of mine like web development, I’ve probably built over 500 websites. So that would be on my long part. Yeah. different kinds of things. Strategy is another big one that I do quite a bit of or consulting. another big one I do is I’ll get people’s p and l and we’ll go through it.
We’ll find money. Interesting. So where funnel’s not being optimized, where’s content? Could we get better conversions to turn in the customers they have into making more money for them? yeah. we’d have like our superpowers of what we’ve carved out. But we could still have the broad conversation for a company all the way across the board.
Stacey: Totally. Yeah. I really love thinking about it that way and the fact that, your, your areas where you can go deep ’cause that could definitely set you apart.
Audra: Yeah. Yeah. It’s [00:07:00] definitely served well. so let’s talk a little bit about, so you’re doing, coaching. And you’ve been doing this now in this section of coaching.
How long have you been doing it?
Stacey: I have been, I think around 2017, I was like, okay, I’m gonna focus on newish business owners. And the people I was naturally attracting were people like in the wellness field or other coaches or even spiritual type businesses. because that had been who I was naturally attracting, I just claimed it went with it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it served me well because like even niching to that audience, there’s a lot of similarities among
Audra: them. In 2017 there wasn’t, which was good. Yeah. So getting in and getting at the bottom, building up with that industry right now, how do you found it? How do you find it today?
Stacey: today it’s still pretty competitive. Now. There are, like business coach for life coaches, so even there’s even a niche within a [00:08:00] niche which can become overwhelming. But I think, having that experience for the past few years and having optimized my own website and now having worked with a decent amount of clients, I can rely on, more word of mouth, and those types of things and results.
Audra: results. Results you’ve been able to get people, yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a big place that new coaches run into is they may have the skill, meaning they’ve gone through a program or gotten certified in somebody else’s techniques, but without, I. Being able to say, and this is the results I’ve gotten that’s a little bit tougher to compete in that space.
Stacey: Totally, yeah. And results. That’s really hard for coaches to speak to generally to quantify. Yeah. Yeah, because every person is different, but there will usually be like themes or certain types of results your people are getting, especially if you’re niching down.
Audra: So true. True. That’s a good point.
So let’s explore that for a [00:09:00] second. Yeah. So if you’re a coach and you’re struggling with providing a consistent result that you can hang your hat on to say, this is my program and this is the results my program gets, what would you suggest to
Stacey: people? Yeah. I would say, think about the problems, may, it might even be one problem, but the one to three problems you’re solving with your thing.
Okay. And if you’re like, I solve all these problems, I would say, can you choose some problems and really dive deeply into those and focus on the ones that you know you can address. And where you’ve seen some traction. That’s great. So it, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. It might even be like, say you have a general life coaching program, maybe you, create one that is like career specific.
’cause you’ve had a lot of clients who are stuck in their careers and you make it all about being stuck in your career and you narrow in on those career [00:10:00] specific components. ’cause then you can say, I help people who are stuck in their careers. I help them find clarity or new jobs or brush up their.
Audra: Very good. I learned early on, so I don’t, I’m not sure who said it, but so I’m not taking credit for it, but it was such a great example. They said when you’re trying to build a brand, then it’s about, this is what my company’s known for. But when you’re an independent and you are the brand,
You have to claim somewhere to start. if you think of, Neil Patel, he’s the ss e o guy. Now he does much more than just s e o. He, his companies generate a hundred million dollars a year. So of course they do everything on the backend from a marketing perspective, but he got his claim to fame as an ss e o guy.
if you look at Gary V was the social media guy and look at where he is gone. Each one of us have to stick a stake in the ground and say, this is what I wanna be known for. Totally. For me, mine is [00:11:00] strategy. I. And then the other stuff comes along with it. But that’s where I hag my hat as to, what is that one piece that I can go out, I can prove results.
I’ve got the skills, I’ve got the experience to be able to tie to that one thing. Yeah. And. As a coach, I think it’s super important for you to find what that one thing is. Maybe you have to start with three. If you’re new until you can eliminate where you’re getting people the best results.
Yeah. And then focus down on just that one. Doesn’t mean it don’t do the other stuff. It just means. oh, we go to her because she doesn’t get this result. This guy publishes books. This person, pub, maybe let me re-say that this guy publishes non-fiction books For this industry.
you could niche it down to very specific things like that.
Stacey: Yeah. I love that idea. And I like how you said, you know where you’re gonna hang your hat. so pick that thing you wanna be known for knowing that your skills are above and beyond that thing, [00:12:00] right? I always tell my clients it’s like a dartboard and you want to aim for the center of the dartboard, and you decide what that center of the dartboard is, and you’re gonna attract people who are, not just in the middle there, but you need to know what the middle is.
And it’s way easier. again, it sounds counterintuitive. It’s way easier to. Go for the center and then, reach beyond that. Yeah. Versus like start with this broad, amorphous. Business.
Audra: Hoping somebody that you’re passing along the way will stop and
Stacey: talk. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s the cool thing about branding too, is like you now get to decide what you wanna be known for.
Yeah. And you do want to do that. So you don’t just get labeled as, oh, there’s that person that does X and you don’t even wanna be known for doing X. That’s not your
Audra: thing. Yeah, I,you’ve got ex marketing experience. Let’s explore a little bit for somebody new. the way that I’m, I typically will see it built is I have an idea.[00:13:00]
So I launch a product or a service, then I go out and try to find my audience. And then I can’t keep up with trying to get out there and build a brand. So really, I’m talking to nobody. Or I’m talking to everybody and nobody hears you. And then I go back and realize I don’t even know who I am supposed to be talking to, let alone myself and how I wanna show
Audra: happens a lot. So what would you say to somebody that’s going through this?
Stacey: Yeah, I honestly, I think the very first thing anyone should do, which is the very first thing that I take my clients through the process of like self-discovery, like good, regardless of what is, what you think is happening in the marketplace, what is trending on Instagram, what do you really want to do, right?
Like why are you. In this business, what is your dream like? What do you really, what do you want to be doing in your day-to-day life? So let’s get clear on that. And then [00:14:00] secondly, start getting clear on your audience. And do a ton of customer research and interviews before you even prototype your product.
Yeah, I really think people skip this step. They just think I have an idea. It’s so often, yeah. They say, I have an idea, and they create it and let’s just do some, you can create your thing. Cool, but let’s do some market research to see who are your people, what do they want? How are they talking about what they want, and are they interested in a thing like yours?
Or how can you create something that they’re actually interested in?
Audra: it’s crazy that in, so in 2023 when this podcast is being recorded, it’s simpler than it’s ever been in probably the history of the world to launch a business. Let alone online. of course online it wasn’t around to compare.
But the point is, it’s so easy today, but at the same time, It’s like we take for granted that you still have to do the fundamentals. You still have to, I think the story’s always been [00:15:00] start at test and validate, launch, grow, scale, There’s six steps you go through. I think there almost needs to be like a double zero.
Where it’s figure out who the hell you are. Yes. Yeah. And who you’re trying to serve. Because almost everybody that I talk to goes, I’m testing and validating. I talked to a couple friends. They said it was a great idea. To launch to. I’m trying to automate stuff. Wait a second. Nothing’s working.
Let me go back. Wait, who am I? Am I’m trying to sell you a product I’m not even congruent with. I can’t sell it to you ’cause I don’t even know who I am and how I’m supposed to be showing up here, or
Stacey: I can’t sell it to you because I don’t even like it or wanna deliver it. And people do. How crazy that’s true.
It’s crazy. But people end up there because they follow what other people are saying or this person is doing the program, I should do this. And it’s no, you need to check in with yourself, focus on something you really want. What is the point of starting a business if you’re gonna do something you don’t [00:16:00] even like.
You know what I
Audra: mean? I think ’cause some people that get into that position, they’re chasing the money first. Yes. I know it’s easy. Bob’s making a million dollars a year. I’m gonna go do it. And then you get into it and you hate it. You don’t wanna do the tech, you don’t wanna follow through the process.
You don’t wanna put the work in. Yeah. And you’re not congruent with it. ’cause you didn’t start it for the right reasons.
Stacey: Yeah. They’re thinking about what is. What is actually marketable? What what will succeed? And it’s okay, none of us have a crystal ball to know that. But it’s not gonna succeed if you don’t like what you’re doing or you’re faking it, the whole time.
Audra: Yeah. It won’t last. Yeah. It’s tough. Things will get tough. And those reasons that you thought were important enough to start the business. Or gone. They’re diminished. Yeah. And things will, what am I
Stacey: doing? Totally. And things will get tough regardless. Like even when you’re doing the thing you love, it will be tough.[00:17:00]
But that’s why it’s important. That’s the thing. You love, that you love it because you then you won’t give up. And you’ll find a
Audra: way. Have you thought about doing anything else? you’re young still, so you’ve got, what, 10, almost 10 years in this.
Stacey: Yeah, I don’t feel that young. I feel like I would always probably be in the coaching realm.
I, I sometimes think about doing life coaching again on the side because, life and business is so intertwined and even when I coach my business clients, Life stuff comes all the time. Like especially when you’re like a solo entrepreneur, like things like boundaries and saying no, or prioritizing yourself or, these things come up and I, I luckily still get to draw on my life coaching skills there, which is really fun for me.
Audra: as we evolve as humans, I don’t think you can separate them. you can try to focus on that.[00:18:00] I’ve never done a lot of, direct coaching. I’ve never packaged that up and said, this is what I’m doing. But when I, anytime I’ve gone into help a business move from 1 million to 5 million, 5 million to 15 million, the.
Mindset and personality and everything else always comes in it. Yeah. I don’t get paid for that, but I know that it’s a component of it and a lot of times the business may not be stalled because of business. Totally. Yeah. And what do you say, I am not gonna help you? Of course, you gotta help ’em.
Stacey: That’s such a good point. It might not be about business, it might not be about strategy. It might be about mindset or how team gets along or Right. the underlying beliefs or they’re just stuck. yeah. They’re just stuck. Yeah, it, you can’t separate them. They just go together. But that’s why, if you’re hiring someone to help you on your business, you wanna make sure they are equipped to help you with those challenges [00:19:00] too.
Like whether they have a title or coach or not, they need to be able to, yeah. Support that.
Audra: Yeah. Even if it’s just to talk through it. Yeah. I think my advice to coaches listening to this, even if you’re a niched coach in one specific thing, be a generalist in some of the other things.
And just to be able to add a little bit more value and to help solidify the results that you can get your client. And maybe you qualify it by saying, look, this is the lane that I play in. But be prepared occasionally. You’re gonna have to step outside of that Totally. To be able to continue to get your help, your client get pro progress.
Stacey: Yeah. I totally agree with that. And the good news is, many of the coach training schools will teach you coaching skills that you can use for anyone, oh, nice. even though I say niche down, you wanna be drawing on the skills,there’s a way of asking questions or uncovering blocks or Helping people think [00:20:00] through decisions like that’s, those are some really valuable skills.
Audra: and that’ll serve you across the board. Yeah. Regardless if you’re in coaching or
Stacey: Totally. Yeah, I totally
Audra: agree. Yeah. So I got in because I got in so early, I think I found Tony Robbins, maybe I was 23.
So I found him early. my generation, we weren’t talking about self-help. we weren’t that evolved yet. but I do have a degree in psychology and behavioral science. Yeah. And then I got certified as a master practitioner and N L P. Cool. So this was all like education that was really all we had available.
Then there were no coaches teaching, coaching. Yeah. And we had to, we, Frankenstein something together to be able to learn enough of it. And I think, bet, across all the experience I’m qualified, but yeah. just a very different way, which gives coaches today even a more of a direct route To get in and learn exactly [00:21:00] how to deliver results.
Stacey: Yeah. And I, it’s nice that there are still so many modalities, like N L P is great. Even the different coach schools teach. They teach different ways. and some teach some of the same ways, It’s just, they’re like tools in your toolbox.
You’re still the person who decides what tool to use, but it’s nice to have those tools.
Audra: More than just one. Yeah. So what do you say when you’re working with clients and the clients won’t do the work? How do you handle that?
Stacey: that is tricky. I haven’t had that a lot, but if I, I have had like clients show up and they, for a call and they’ve had homework due and they didn’t do it.
And if they didn’t do it, it’s always much deeper than the homework. It’s much deeper than, I couldn’t figure this out. there’s probably some underlying beliefs. around can I really do this? Who am I to do this? There might be fears around being visible. So that becomes a coaching session in itself.
Like what’s [00:22:00] underlying the reason why you’re stalled out? good. Because when someone is just stuck. Okay, but why? let’s dig deeper and figure out why. Rarely is it because. They don’t wanna do it or they don’t even have the tools. There’s usually a mindset component there. Yeah. And that’s good for coaching.
And yeah, that’s also why I give people Voxer, access to me in between. And I say if you are getting stalled out, reach out the moment you’re stalled out. Don’t be stuck in this stuck loop for, days or weeks. That’s not. Okay. That’s good. and everyone does. I still feel stuck from time to time, but it’s like, how can you explore what’s underneath it so you can unstick yourself and even take one small baby step.
Audra: So what do you do if you get stuck?
Stacey: I get really curious. So if I’m stuck, it’s usually because I’m looping on something in my brain. Oh,
Audra: [00:23:00] sister, every single time.
Stacey: And sometimes it’s a problem of too many ideas from I could do this, I could do this. What about this? What about that? And it’s looping.
And one of the first things I try to do is, Get out of the loop. So I’ll do something to move my body, like maybe I go for a run or I just go outside or just step away from my computer, or I just take some deep breaths or I just breathe. and then I’ll. I’ll try to see. Meditation is good for this. I’ll try to be the observer and see, you know what, what’s going on?
Is there like a need to figure something out? Is there a need to make money? Is there a need to, What, where is the urgency or what’s really, why am I looping? yeah. Why am I looping? that’s a big part of it, and I honestly feel like tuning into the body can be really helpful too.
Through my, I went through a trauma informed coding program, [00:24:00] which we dived into a lot of somatic experiencing in the body. Nice. if you can imagine yourself ta making a decision and then see how it feels in your body, that can really be really illuminating for you. And I can usually see okay, is this something that I feel like I should do?
Or is this something like, oh, I actually really want to do. And being able to say, I’m not gonna worry about the shows, which is sometimes harder than others.
Audra: Okay. the getting in and actually feeling the energy. Sometimes I have to just like, if I’m looping like that I have to just close the windows. Oh, interesting. Start with a fresh, because I work online so much. Yeah. Everything my world evolves around these monitors.
Yeah. I just have to close the windows and just say, okay. once you get too many open, it’s almost like unfinished tasks. Yeah. And then it’s which one’s most important? What do I do now? Wait that client, I’m delivering this. [00:25:00] Or what should I do with this? Oh wait, I was working on and I just, I gotta close ’em.
Like you go outside, go for a run. Yeah. no bike riding right now still. But, soon I’ll be back on the bike and that seems to help. Break that up. The other thing I did when I was learning about N L P and the stuff that was going on, I got introduced to Eckert Tolle’s stuff. Okay.
Yeah. And he has a book out called The New Earth. It’s probably been out 10, 15 years now. One of the hardest and the best books that I’ve ever read. First couple times I tried to read it, I couldn’t read it. Yeah. I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. put it back on the shelf, maybe went back to it a few months later, picked it up, could not even get through the first chapter.
And I was just, I could not get my mind in the place to hear what he was saying. Yeah. Then it took the third try and I was able to get in it, and then I was ready. I was in a better [00:26:00] place that I was open to what he teaches. And being able to, ’cause you brought up stepping outside of yourself.
Yeah. And seeing what’s going on. That was when I finally learned, To be able to step outside of yourself and look at the situation from different eyes. And a different perspective. And man, that has served me so well over the last 10, 15 years or whatever it’s been. Yeah. being able to just slow down, and not just for myself, but for clients as well.
’cause our egos immediately we’re solvers, right? We’re coaches, we’re drivers, we’re achievers. So we constantly wanna just step in and solve. Yeah. Or push you to help you solve. and sometimes you need to be able to step out of that person and look at it from a different perspective to be able to really appreciate how, where that person’s at and how you can serve them.
Stacey: yeah. I think, yeah, the idea of quieting our minds, I feel like we don’t do enough of [00:27:00] that in general. everyone should probably have more of a practice of doing that, but I totally agree with that. it’s like being present how, be present in the moment and not be thinking, what am I gonna respond to this client?
Just be very present with the client and let things naturally arise.
Audra: and let them also share where they’re at. ’cause remember that may take a couple layers to actually get down to, like you said, what the real problem is, what you, How does it go, what on the surface. Or if you have a tree that isn’t producing fruit.
You don’t look at the fruit that is there. You have to go back to the root of the tree and find out why it’s producing what it’s producing. And us as humans, it’s the same thing. What you’re seeing is just the symptoms, Of something else that’s actually going on. And until you’re able to work with them to dig down to that, they may not even be conscious of what it
Yeah, totally. Yeah. It’s really a gift [00:28:00] to be able to be present with a client and help them access. That those roots, because they’re right. A lot of times they’re not conscious of them. and we don’t know either. As a coach, we only can hold this space and ask the questions to support them to get there.
Audra: Let’s pivot a little bit. Let’s talk about how do you find clients today? I know that’s a huge thing for coaches.
we covered them, figuring out who they are and who they’re gonna serve, who that target audience is. How are people finding clients today?
Stacey: Yeah, I think it depends on the stage of your business too. for me, I still have a variety of ways to find clients. I get clients through s e o since I’ve optimized my site.
I get clients through referrals, and then I get clients through, either being a guest on a podcast or being a speaker at a summit. Those are probably [00:29:00] my main ways. Okay,
Stacey: if I were a new coach just starting out, I would still, use your network And tell people what you’re doing and ask them to spread the word.
I would also look at, communities that are likely to have your ideal clients. So they could be online communities, like Facebook groups or even Actual groups in your community, right? Maybe there’s a women’s organization or a coworking space, but getting like actually in front of people can help be helpful.
Audra: as we led into all this talking about businesses in 2023 and how easy it is to start ’em online, I think it’s important to remind people that offline is still a gig. Yeah. That people still network and connect and do business with other humans face-to-face.
Stacey: Totally. And I think [00:30:00] coaching, Especially life coaching.
Well, a lot of coaching, Trust is required and you go deep with the client, and so having an in-person connection can help establish that sense of trust a lot earlier on in the process. And then if you’re. If you’re doing something like facilitating an in-person workshop, that’s another way you’re already building connection and trust.
and it can of course happen online too, but sometimes it’s faster when it’s in person.
Audra: Yeah, you’re around each other. You feel the person’s energy. You can see their facial expressions and their body language. Agreed. I think that’s great and a great place to start to add to that is local.
Check out your local community. There’s places you could probably volunteer. To go in and teach a workshop or The Chamber of Commerce or, depending on where you’re located, there’s gotta be some little kind of entrepreneur center where you could reach out or just go on to meet up and schedule your own.
Yeah. [00:31:00] Find somewhere local that could host you and invite people in just for a free session. Yeah. That is a great way to get started when you don’t know anybody and you’re new in the
Stacey: industry. Totally. I think we all forgot about offline marketing during the pandemic because there was nothing happening.
We couldn’t go anywhere. But now people actually want to get out and do things and they want to connect in person. So even if you have to drive to the nearest big city, it might be worth it for you to have those connections.
Audra: Here’s the flip side of that. Even if you don’t get customers, you get practice.
What lands, what doesn’t land? What did you talk about? Was there interest in it? That in itself is kind of field testing as to what your program could be about and who knows? where we start and where we end up are typically not the same place, right? Meaning I swore, I was only gonna sell this one thing.
You may start there, but it will evolve based on what your clients need. Totally. If you [00:32:00] wanna stay in business, it will.
Stacey: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So being open to that is important too. And even the connections you make, even if it’s not a client, it could be someone who refers you a client like you never know.
Friend of a
Audra: friend, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like I said, it’s practice. Even if nothing comes out of it, it’s still worthwhile to do because the better you get at pitching what you do and how you do it, the easier it’ll be once you start getting in front of real clients.
Stacey: Yes, totally. The more you can pitch and just talk about your business.
The better, then the easier it will get. And I know that’s like a thing no one wants to do at the beginning, but we really can’t. It’s the most important thing I know. We really can’t avoid it. And the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Audra: For sure. So where do you stand with, one-on-one coaching versus group coaching?
Stacey: I like both. I offer both. I have a group program that opens twice a year and then I offer [00:33:00] one-on-one coaching, year round. So I think it’s nice to do both ’cause they’re different price points. I. some people like learning one-on-one, some people like a group experience, so I think there’s value in both.
I did start with one-on-one and I think you did. Okay. I think it makes sense for a lot of coaches to start with one-on-one because you don’t really have an audience yet. I. Which you do wanna be building an audience for group offerings. So it’s often easier to start with one-on-one, get your feet wet, see what the common challenges or desires of your people are, and then maybe create a group program around it.
Audra: Okay. so I wanna challenge that for a second ’cause I have heard people say it this way. So if I don’t have experience, wouldn’t I want to do group coaching to start because I keep the price point lower and I can help more people at once, which will provide me faster results on the other side and validation [00:34:00] of my program.
What would you say to that? That’s
Stacey: a good question. I think first you wanna validate your program. Before you even sell it. So you know, you could do, say do a like 20 market research interviews and you create a program that a bunch of people are clamoring for. Yeah. go for it. I think the problem I see is when people start, they have an audience of zero.
They don’t know who to. Sell or market to at all? and I think, as far as the price point, I would say if you have no experience, start doing one-on-one coaching at a discounted rate. do it half price. my first few clients were like paying me $75, but, it helped me build my confidence My coaching skills and it helped me get clients. And then I just raised my price incrementally. So I do think you wanna. You want to be confident in your coaching, and if that means you even do some pro bono sessions or reduce [00:35:00] price sessions, there’s no shame in that.
Audra: My first clients, I think I paid them. So by the time I worked through the funds that I made and I was trying to learn it, I’m good at sales, but I didn’t know how to deliver. On what I sold. So I had to learn it in real time. And I definitely work for free and some for those, totally, those first handful.
But what that did was that set me up on the next client, and you go from. I think back then it was like $1,500 for social media build out and then it went to $2,500, then it went to five grand, then it went up to 10 grand. But it took time to get there. And yeah, those first few, God bless ’em, they were patient.
Yeah. And supportive and, but they also know they got a deal And I overdelivered because I was learning and totally that was a win-win for both of us. Yeah,
Stacey: that’s a great. Way to do it and just be transparent with people. I’m a new coach, I’m [00:36:00] taking five clients at this reduced rate to sharpen my coaching skills.
just be really transparent. Yeah. And a lot of the good coaching programs like the one I went to, we had to complete. a certain amount of coaching hours before we even got our certification. Nice. So we had done peer coaching, we had done, I had done coaching for free. and that really helps build your confidence as well.
Audra: I, because it takes it from theory into something practical. Yeah. Yeah, we did that with the N L P certification. you would work with other instructors and you would have to perform that task on them To get those results and they would also do it on you. And that helped quite a bit.
Yeah. So I could see it like in the wild on what it was. What to expect, what things come up, all that kind of
Stacey: good stuff. Yeah. There’s no substitute for actual coaching. So do what you have to do to get that experience.
Audra: Yeah. Worthwhile. Yeah. All right. What would be some things [00:37:00] that you would suggest to somebody?
They’ve been in business for a little while and they’re just not able to hammer out exactly what their program is, meaning they’re having to give customized service to every single person. Yeah,
Stacey: that’s interesting. I would say, if they’re giving customized service for every single person, I would ask them to think about who is their favorite client that they’re working with or have worked with, or their favorite.
To clients and what you know, let’s do an ideal client profile of that person. What are they coming to you wanting? How have you served them? What was the program you put together for them? And that can be your template. That’s how I, started my very first program. I had two clients starting with me at the same time.
They were at the same stage in business, and I was like, okay, I’m gonna take them both through this framework and, it, it was a solid framework. [00:38:00] I added some things as we went, and then that kind of became the framework for my. Main program, and then I made sure I was targeting people like those clients.
Like that program wouldn’t have worked for someone 10 years of experience in business.
Audra: sure. that’s a great piece of advice. So take the ones that you really worked with, that you got the results. That you’ve recognized patterns. A lot of this too is pattern recognition and okay, this person that talks like this, it’s typically this.
And this is how we saw that. And get used to paying attention to that not being so present that you’re not taking note of these consistent things that keep showing
Stacey: up. Yeah. And even for a coaching program, I think, it’s good to have a framework. But then allow some flexibility, Yeah.
one client may need to do, step B before step A. One client may not even need step A ’cause they’re beyond that, but that’s okay. They can still [00:39:00] generally follow the framework.
Audra: so my first adventure into entrepreneurship was coffee shops.
Oh, cool. So I had a coffee shop and I started hiring employees and I started running into issues with consistency. This person made it this way, this person made it this way. But I was getting so busy that I wasn’t doing all the training. So I would train employee one that had been there the longest, did a great job.
Employee one would train employee seven, but stuff was getting lost in translation. And where I had the coffee shops were in my local town where I grew up, so I knew a lot of people and I would go to the grocery store just to. Pick up a gallon of milk and somebody would stop me and say, Hey, Audra, I was in your coffee shop and so made my drink and it wasn’t the same and this person made it.
It wasn’t hot enough and this person, it wasn’t sweet enough. And I was, it was becoming a issue. Yeah. At the gas station, at the grocery store, getting my hair done, and I was [00:40:00] just like, Something has gotta give here. I can’t control all these moving pieces. I’ve gotta do something different. And my accountant entered, he, my first year round in business, he’s like, how’s it going?
I’m like, man, I’m struggling. I can’t figure out this one. I was, this was my first business. I didn’t know what I was doing. Hiring people, let alone any of the other responsibilities. And he’s you gotta read this book called the E-Myth. Now Michael Gerber’s processes have been around forever, but took me a few months to get back to it.
Now, mind you, during this coffee shop time, I am a full-time student. I’m taking 12 units and I have three kids under the age of 10. Oh, wow. And I’m a single parent. Wow. So life was challenging and every minute count. So still couldn’t figure it out. Didn’t stop long enough. ’cause I’m a driver, I’m gonna just, I’ll push through it, I’ll figure it out.
I wasn’t figuring it out and I needed somebody to like wave something in my face and say, look, [00:41:00] stop. You’re working too hard, you’re doing the wrong things at the wrong time. And out of desperation, I think I sat down one night and just okay, I gotta read this stupid book.
Got into it and realized that was the answer. And I was like, oh my gosh, I am like taking 80 steps. And if I would’ve slowed down and been present and paid attention, yeah. I really only needed four.
Stacey: Yeah. So that’s a great lesson. It
Audra: was a great lesson. I
Stacey: think we’re all, we start and we’re like, I wanna hit six figures.
And it’s okay, but let’s be where you are and take care of what you need to do right now.
Audra: And here’s the end of that. sat down, remapped out everything where it didn’t matter who trained you. Because everybody was following it from one book. So you actually had to go out of your way for your drinks to come out wrong.
Wow. Yeah. I managed every single piece of it. Six months later, [00:42:00] opened my second store. That’s amazing. So I just, oops. I just needed, again, slow down, be present. Somebody else has already done this. We don’t need to recreate the wheel and be, like you said, curious and say, okay, my way’s not working.
I really don’t know what I’m doing. It’s not like I have previous experience. I’m, siphoning off of. I didn’t have the experience. I was an employee before that. So just slowing down long enough and saying, okay, somebody’s already shown the path here. Who can I ask?
Or who can I go learn from, or what books can I read to fill in the gaps of the pieces I’m missing and then momentum my head off again. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it was a good lesson.
Stacey: Yeah. and you were humble enough to be like, this isn’t working. I need help. Who can I ask? And we all have to do that from time to time.
Yeah. we’ve not been in this situation before, so we don’t [00:43:00] know. Yeah.
Audra: And to that point, it doesn’t matter if you are just starting out making your first dollar. ’cause I wasn’t making much back then you guys, but I’ve had clients where they’ve paid me $40,000 and I’m stuck and I cannot figure out how to solve a problem for them.
Yeah. You have to check your ego at the door ’cause this is not going to serve you and find somebody that is a couple steps ahead that can help light the path for you.
Stacey: Totally. Yeah. I agree. I think we need to take any shame out of the not knowing Yeah. Asking for help. Yeah. Yeah. And how could we possibly know, Like we’re one person. and if you’ve
Audra: never done it, where was that information gonna come from, right? Yeah, exactly. Osmosis, yeah.
Stacey: Divine intervention telling you
Audra: how we’re not there yet with ai, right? It can’t downloaded to our brain to make that happen yet.
Stacey: Maybe someday.
Audra: Maybe someday sooner. Probably sooner than we think. [00:44:00] Yeah. Alright, so give us one last tidbit for folks that are pushing through this middle spot, what would be your advice for
Stacey: them? I would say get, when you’re in the middle it just, it sometimes feels like there’s so many things pulling you and so many things you could be doing.
It’s really important to get back to okay, what do I really want to be doing? you don’t have to like scale to a course if you don’t wanna do that. You don’t have to do a group program if you like one-on-one, but get clear on what you want and define maybe one baby step that you can take in that direction.
Audra: Good. That’s awesome. All right. Thank you, Stacy. Thank you so much for being here. This has been fun. Yeah, I
Stacey: agree. Thanks so much for having me, Audra.
Audra: All right, you guys, until next time, keep moving through the middle.
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