John Webster

[00:01:25] Yeah. That’s not, that is, it comes across and I see authors that do that and I cringe because what happens is it drastically reduces their credibility. When they’re pushing out something that’s a sixty, 80 page pamphlet, paperback, print on with Amazon, which is the cheapest quality printing out there.

[00:01:47] Yeah. So it’s cheap, it’s inexpensive, but it’s not really good quality. And then you come across and people’s looking at that, and really that book is the, a business card that you’re handing to people. True. if I wrote down my name and number and went around to everybody, say, Look here, buy my $10,000 services.

[00:02:06] It’s it, the credibility’s not there. And that’s exactly what some authors are doing when they do that through the Amazon KDP. So I take people through a complete process of making sure it’s done true self-publishing. Where you’re working with a team, so you’re getting together with the editor, the interior designer, the cover design, you’re have someone that’s, getting the barcode in the ISBN numbers.

[00:02:32] . And, I get, I have someone that does imprint, that’s New York, so comes across, you open it up, it says, Published in New York. which really helps with media planners. And so when, and you have the final product and you’re getting a hardcover book quality is, Substantial and it’s a huge credibility boost.

[00:02:55] Audra: Okay. And how are you finding, and really this is just to give me an idea of where you could possibly be, running into challenges. from an outsider looking in, what I would see is, Quicker, faster, better. good is good enough kind of mentality when it comes to book publishing.

[00:03:12] You just need to get something up there. Don’t do the whole book, just do a chapter. Do it in micro books. There’s a lot of, I don’t know if it’s, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of information and people pulling from all different directions. And it’s the same thing in marketing.

[00:03:27] John Webster: People are pulling from all different directions. You don’t need to do anything but webinars. You don’t need to do anything but funnels. You don’t need to do anything. it’s all sorts of stuff, right? yeah. you, if you’re really good at sales, you can sell on a specific

[00:03:39] method. But the fact is you want that credit. and that’s the ultimate goal and objective is to get that credibility. And that’s what the purpose of the book is. It’s not so much that you’re getting the information out there. It’s the information’s irrelevant, right? In all seriousness.

[00:03:54] most people aren’t even gonna read the book that purchase it. The purpose of the book is to establish the credibility so that now you can use that book to basically generate other multiple streams of income off that book. So I teach my clients how to do that, how to use the book to get speaking events when, I take my book and now I am, going in, I’m booking a 5,000, 10,000, $20,000 speaking event as the professional keynote speaker.

[00:04:22] John Webster: Okay. Taking that book and using, creating a course off of that book, creating, taking that book and creating, what do you call that? Retreat or something? Retreat off the book Mastermind or something, So there’s a lot of different ways to generate the income off the book. The, book is the starting point, and if you don’t have that credibility built up, it’s really hard to use a flimsy.

[00:04:44] Audra: Print on demand book to try to say, Hey, pay for my, $15,000 retreat. I gotcha. I think it goes back to anything that we do from a business standpoint. You gotta start with what the strategy is and what your goals are. Some people, the ones that I was referring to earlier, their goal is just to get a book published.

[00:05:03] so the other 10 things that you just named are the benefits of having a well done, published book are irrelevant to them. They just want the book. They just want to be able to say, I could write a book now with AI. So again, that’s not a very serious book, but it’s still a book to say I publish something to hang my hat on it.

[00:05:23] Audra: Like you said, regardless if anybody reads it or not, regardless if the quality is there, but I guarantee I won’t get speaking gigs from it. Nobody’s gonna take it seriously. I’m not gonna be able to charge $5,000 for a course. So it depends on what the goal is of that book to begin with. And then I think that’s where you start splitting out your buyers, right?

[00:05:43] Yeah. if you’re serious about this and this is the path you’re trying to go on, to become a stage speaker to, allow that to carry you places, this is the path you have to take. If you’re just looking for the sake of publishing, go write it, stick it up on KDP and be done with it.

[00:05:58] John Webster: I got it. Okay. Makes perfect sense. So now tell me where you’re at. What kind of marketing are you doing? What’s working for you or what’s not working for you? so where I’m at, it’s a lot of hustle and grind cuz what I’m doing is, talking with people individually. Okay. so I connect with people individually, I’m finding out people that want to write and publish a book

[00:06:21] want to use it for, to increase their credibility that they want to get higher paid speaking engagements. so where there’s the people that want that stuff and they need something that’s going to boost that. Okay. if that makes sense. yeah. Absolutely. So what does your outbound marketing look like?

[00:06:38] Audra: Are you doing webinars? Are you just posting on social media? Do you have a group? How are you building a list of people to engage with currently? so I connect with people on LinkedIn. I connect with people on Facebook. but yeah, so it’s a lot of things like that. Yeah. So typically, where do your clients come from?

[00:06:56] Which platform?

[00:06:57] John Webster: It varies. I get does it? Okay. I get some people from Facebook. I get a lot more from LinkedIn, but it’s a, varies on a different things,

[00:07:07] Audra: depending on what you’re talking about. . Now, what would you say is your strength when it comes to the marketing? Do you, is it scheduling the appointment?

[00:07:15] John Webster: Is it getting ’em on the call? How often do you have to engage with them to know, Hey, this is gonna work out, or I can’t help them, they’re looking for something else. pretty much I can find out just on one phone call. Okay. yeah. Have you thought about hiring that task out? I thought about it, yeah.

[00:07:33] And the, I, the issue that I have with that is that number one, VA is not gonna be able to. Read them the same way that I would because they’re not fighting the same kind of coaching services that I am. the other issue with the VA is that they’re, again, it’s one thing I could hire a VA to book calls.

[00:07:53] But technically I’d have to take those calls one on one.

[00:07:57] Audra: For what you’re trying to do, you have to definitely qualify them better. But what about a sales team? Like sales people? not va. I agree. they could schedule appointments, but they’re not gonna be any good at qualifying them.

[00:08:09] Yeah. So a sales team could essentially work or person, it doesn’t have to be a team, right? I’m just, Or yeah. Or salesperson. that could be a possibility.

[00:08:18] Audra: Reason I say that is, I don’t know what your bandwidth looks like, but at some point you’ll run outta time to do the qualifying. How much hands on do you do after you get them to a point where they’re ready to go forward?

[00:08:32] so it’s very hands on. So my coaching services are a lot of one-on-one coaching. So I take people through a whole process of the writing aspect of it. So even if they, sucked it writing in English class in high school, I can still get them through a whole process that comes out with some stellar content.

[00:08:53] John Webster: That’s nice. Okay. . And so there, there’s the aspect of the writing and then there’s the aspect of taking that manuscript once it gets done and going through that publishing process. So it’s a self-publishing process, which there is a complete process to that. And that the traditional publishers use and self-published true self-publishers use. in a lot of people that print on Amazon, they skip that whole thing. And that’s where there’s a lot of mistakes get thrown in. And so you really don’t want that. And yeah, you can go with the traditional publishers that take care of all that work for you.

[00:09:29] But then what they’re doing is they essentially give you maybe an advance of five or $10,000. They’re paying for all the expense to get the book done. Plus that advance, which is an advance against your royalties. So you’re still having to pay it back. so it comes off of the first royalties that you would’ve earned go to pay back that advance, so you’re still really not making any money off of it.

[00:09:53] Audra: Okay. But it’s published properly and now you have the opportunity to make more revenue once you’re even.

[00:09:59] John Webster: But, or if you do the self-publishing model that, that I teach you, you’re paying that same cost that the traditional publishers are paying. but the difference is now once it’s done, it’s in print.

[00:10:12] You are taking a hundred percent of that profit. You have a hundred percent control of the book. Now you have a hundred percent over the control, over the distribution of the book. Okay? Which some publishers say, Okay, you, we’ll sell the book. You can’t sell it at your speaking events. You can’t sell it here, You can’t sell it there.

[00:10:30] so they control the distribution. Whereas if you’re self published, you control a hundred percent of the distribution, you have a hundred percent of the profit. So you’re not just getting a small royalty off of it. You’re actually,controlling that profit as well. And a lot of people in, including the traditional publishers won’t tell you this.

[00:10:47] John Webster: They’ll do a really quick, marketing run of 90 to a hundred days. And if it doesn’t do well, they stop and they don’t do anymore. And so what happens is, cuz they’re taking a risk on that. Sure. And if it does do well, they’ll throw in some more money towards the marketing of that. Sure. the true marketing of the book comes down to the author.

[00:11:07] Yeah. So the author is ultimately responsible in getting their book marketed. Just like a, just like an actor. Just Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s the third aspect of my coaching services is that marketing of the book. After it gets published, I go through the writing, the actual publishing process, and then the marketing on it as well.

[00:11:23] Audra: So you’re the between, the extreme of do it yourself and have it published for you, you’re giving ’em a little bit of a hybrid between the two. So they get some of the independence of still, like you said, ownership and what happens after it’s published. But you’re giving ’em some of the fill in some of the gap of what they don’t show you at the higher level.

[00:11:44] John Webster: And boy, I wouldn’t say it’s a hybrid because there are hybrid publishers. Okay. what I do is coach people through the process. Okay. So where they’re getting stuck in the process, I’m there to coach them through that. Ok. So they’re not paying me for any of the services on getting the book done.

[00:12:03] Audra: Okay. I, they’re paying me for the coaching that I offer. Okay. I got it. Now, do you have landing pages or some kind of funnel setup where you send your people through, this is great information. It should be available somewhere that people can actually, you know how it goes, right?

[00:12:18] Right. They start out as cold. You gotta spend some time educating them on the value. When you and I first chatted and you brought up the New York published thing, , there was no, I had no feelings about it one way or another. Cause I didn’t understand it. Once you explain the value of that and how much more credible you appear by having that, then of course I see the value, right?

[00:12:39] Audra: So some of this needs to live somewhere. You almost need to say, are you tired of self-publishing and not getting any results? , let me help you work through this and here are the main reasons why, and maybe do a comparison. This is self-publishing, this is what happens to your book. This what’s happened to your credibility, just the things that we’ve just discussed.

[00:12:57] John Webster: And then the other side, this is where you end up with me coaching you and helping you through the process. there’s huge value in that. Yeah, there is. Yeah. currently I don’t have any funnel systems set up specifically like that. I do have a funnel page set up to get, book a consultation with me.

[00:13:15] Okay. but that’s about all I have set up right now.

[00:13:18] Audra: Okay. I think with what do you build? right now I use,

[00:13:22] John Webster: Groove. Groove. Okay. So don’t they have landing pages? yeah, they do. Okay. they have the funnels, they have the landing pages. They have webinars I’m putting together right now a, webinar, that I’ll probably, have available within the next week or two.

[00:13:36] Audra: Nice and how do you plan to drive traffic to that?

[00:13:39] John Webster: That’s a good question. I’m not really sure yet, but I think that it’s gonna be a slower process of getting traffic to that. Okay. are you against buying ads or you wanna do it all organically? I prefer to do it organically.

[00:13:52] I’m not a real big fan of, buying ads. Okay. I’ve had in all of my. Other entrepreneurial endeavors. I’ve never purchased advertising. No. And so even my retail store, I took that, when I started that,I think I went into debt about 30 grand to get that set up. And within two years I was going over a million dollars in revenue.

[00:14:15] Good for you. No ad spend, no advertising. Yeah. no. No. no media, no, billboards. Typical stuff. Billboards and radio and did nothing. so it was no paid advertising whatsoever and it took it to that point. and that was all on an organic, type of spread of, getting people into my store.

[00:14:38] Audra: Wow. That’s really good. It’s a little tough to do that these days and not that ads are your only option, cuz of course they’re not. It’s just, you make it up, right? Either you’re spending money, or you’re putting in the time. So whatever you’ve got more of, that’s what you’re spending to get in front of audiences and tell ’em about the product.

[00:14:55] I’m going through the same thing, trying to, or I should, let me change the language. launching this marketplace that I’m doing. So I’ve owned a agency since 2009, so I’ve been doing this for a long time. I’m pivoting out of services and starting something from scratch all over again, and it’s, I’m trying to do the same thing as you now in all disclosure.

[00:15:16] I set up a Facebook ad this weekend and turned it on yesterday. Just for, really for brand, because I like you, I have to do some educating as to what I’ve built because I’ve built, one thing that has many components to it. And from a very high level, it’s a lot. And if you’re not in the industry, it’s a lot.

[00:15:38] So I’ve gotta be able to chunk it down into smaller pieces to show you the value of what each one of them does. and it’s, for me, it’s not happening fast enough now. I’m trying it, I don’t wanna say it’s cheating because anybody has access to go out and run ads right on Google or LinkedIn or anywhere else.

[00:15:58] But I too wanted to try to build this organic. Now I’m not, I’m spending $5 a day, I’m just testing a couple things. So it’s not like I’m putting a big bankroll behind it because I wanna be able to prove that you can still grow a business today without having to spend a ton of money on marketing, exploring ways to be able to do that.

[00:16:20] John Webster: And in one of the ways that I’m looking in is, doing, joint venture partnerships. That’s very big right now. Absolutely. whereas, you could spend $10,000 in ads and Right. And not get results. and I know people that have done that, they spent literally, $20,000 in ads and get 17,results from that 17 contacts, 17 leads and so it’s really not always the best option.

[00:16:47] Agreed. The people that are making the money using the ads is that they are, spending oodles and oodles of money every month. They’re refining it. And to the point where now that the money that they spend in ads, they have a low ticket offer that basically subsidizes those ads.

[00:17:06] Audra: And now they have contact information of those people to upsell them to what’s, To basically upsell them and contact them basically. I think the other side of that, cuz I don’t wanna scare people away from ads, but I think you’ve gotta be educated.

[00:17:21] , you’ve gotta know how the system works or hire a company or somebody that knows how to do it properly. And the copy and the offer have to be right. You, like you said, you could spend $10,000 and only get 17 leads because the copy didn’t convert. that’ll make or break adds all day long, right?

[00:17:37] Audra: You could have spent a thousand dollars with the right copy and got a hundred leads. So I think it’s just getting that whole thing correctly, meaning you got the right message in front of the right market with the right product. Yep. and showing them that so they’ll buy at it.

[00:17:53] I know so many people, especially being in the industry that print money using ads , but they’re trained professionals, right? They do this for living. They’ve gotten very good at optimizing everything that they do. They know it works and what doesn’t work. The average person like us, they, we don’t, we’ve gotta go whatever routes that we can bootstrap it with at, especially at the beginning of launching something.

[00:18:17] John Webster: So webinar, so you’re going to create the webinar, you’re gonna start talking about it on social media, I would assume? yeah. So yeah, so I’ll probably,promote it through social media, and,other ways of doing that through the different social media channels that I’m on.

[00:18:32] Audra: Okay. And are you gonna do,an evergreen funnel? Are you gonna do it live every time you do it? What is your strategy?

[00:18:38] John Webster: So for the first, probably dozen times, I’m gonna do it live until I can refine it the way that I want it and then do it as an evergreen. Okay. like what Russell’s done with the perfect webinar.

[00:18:49] Audra: Yeah. Yeah. that still works. That’s funny that you brought up webinars. I actually wrote a 3000 word article this morning about webinars, the value of setting up webinars and still using ’em, but to sell your course, It’s actually a great vehicle to go in if you’re a course creator to go in a in and try to sell your course that way.

[00:19:09] and just, for all the typical reasons of credibility and it your expertise and people are able to ask questions and it really demystifies any kind of hesitation they may have from buying your course. So webinars are still very effective. And they don’t have to be a sales webinar. They could be, strictly, Hey, you got an interest in launching a book, let me show you how to do it the right way.

[00:19:35] Audra: So at least by the end of it, you’re able to make some kind of educated decision as to which path is the right one for you. Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s a great idea. What else are you doing? Besides reaching out and trying to schedule phone calls with people, what other strategies have you tried that didn’t work or that is working for you?

[00:19:54] that’s what I’ve been doing lately. I don’t think there’s any other, strategies, that I’m actively pursuing. The, the bottom line is the more people that you talk to, the more opportunities. It’s a number thing. Yeah. Open up. Absolutely. And so not necessarily talking on one, but even talking to one to many.

[00:20:11] John Webster: So the more meetings that you can get in where you are presenting or you are, talking. So that’s why, writing a book goes one on one in hand with speaking, Because as you speak, you’re going to get people that are interested in the book and then they’re gonna be wanting to become your coaching client.

[00:20:30] As you get your books and you talk about the books, then people are gonna wanna book you to be speaking. And so it’s a cycle and that’s why it’s an integral part. Of, coaching service or speaking. for a speaker that’s a professional speaker is to have a good high quality book.

[00:20:48] Audra: Are you doing speaking? Are you out networking in person?

[00:20:52] John Webster: I do, yeah. You, So I do networking, I do speaking. I do a lot of paid speaking events. Sometimes they’re very small, sometimes they’re larger, but, and so the more that you can talk though, the more that people are aware of what you do.

[00:21:10] And then that’s where a lot of the business happens is as, as you speak business happens.

[00:21:17] So if you compared the two online versus offline, where do you find you have more success? probably. I’d probably say offline has been a success. That’s great. because cause people are able to interact with you, they know that you’re a real person and, not some figure that they see on the internet somewhere.

[00:21:37] so they know that this, hey, this is legit. They know that you’re a real person. They can connect with you on a more of a connection you have right there. it’s one thing, I know about Tony Robbins, and I like, okay, oh, he has this new program.

[00:21:52] I go to his website, Okay, this looks good. He has the credibility built up. I know about him and stuff. It’s like buying from Amazon. it’s okay, I could get his $5,000 course on, on his website or whatever, but let’s suppose that I’m at a speaking event that he’s speaking at.

[00:22:07] And then after that meeting, I’m like, take 30 seconds to a minute. And I’m like right there with him. That’s a whole different thing that’s no, it’s like I need to get this now. So it’s a lot different feeling when you are in the presence of the person as opposed to just seeing them around online.

[00:22:28] Audra: Agree. But I think webinars to go back to, that will be the best. Online between the two because they still get to see you live. They still get to ask questions, they still get to build some kind of rapport with you or relationship with you that they can’t get through, a comment on LinkedIn or something like that when it first starts, right?

[00:22:49] LinkedIn’s pretty challenging. I put up yesterday on my Facebook page, What do you think of when I say the word LinkedIn? And it was surprising the questions or the comments that I got. I find LinkedIn very challenging for me from a business perspective. My customers are on there, but to engage, none of it feels genuine for me.

[00:23:12] Audra: And again, I don’t have a high ticket offer, so I’m not looking for, a C level or somebody like that. So it’s a little bit different messaging, but, it’s almost got overrun by people trying to get jobs, people trying to sell you SEO services, people trying to sell you marketing services.

[00:23:29] and so for me, I’ve challenged to find the goodness I know there, it’s there. , and maybe I’ve just not spent enough time on it. but I don’t have the patience. I just don’t. It’s like there’s nothing’s, Yeah. There’s nothing quality there for me. I’ll respond to somebody, they’ll send me a message saying they’ll do my marketing services.

[00:23:47] Audra: I’m like, Did you even look at my profile? I’ve owned an agency since 2009. What are you gonna do for me? I don’t understand, and not that other people can’t do marketing services. Of course they can, but why would I take my marketing, give it to somebody else when that’s what I do? So it’s just, I’m become super.

[00:24:08] I don’t wanna say non tolerant, cuz that’s not the right word, but super critical, super, not a lot of patience for people that are not willing to build a genuine relationship with you. if we’re talking business, then there’s gotta be a lot more to it than you, sending me your canned message 20 times.

[00:24:25] That’s so silly. If you wanna do business with me, work on building a real relationship with me. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. so you’ve got a webinar that’s coming up, what are your anticipation for that? Or what are your expectations for your goals? I imagine because you’re a coach, you’ve, you’ll hit a bandwidth issue with, you can only take on so many clients.

[00:24:45] yeah, and then I’ll have to increase my pricing. There you go. So yeah, there’s only so much time in a day. so I do with my clients, there’s a group aspect of the program and there’s also the individual one on one. So there is nice, there is that one on one, but, obviously I can’t spend 40, 50, 60 hours a week just working on one, one student.

[00:25:06] So in that regards, yes. there is a limitation of how many clients I can take on before I’d have to, raise the bar and increase my pricing for that coaching, and then again, still a limitation. And then, so it just keeps going up and up. Sure. so I actually know, there’s other coaches out there.

[00:25:24] John Webster: They’re charging, 30,000, 50,000, quarter of a million dollars for their coaching services, just simply because. They have a limitation on how many clients, people they can take on. I’ve known a lot of coaches that are pivoting from the one-on-one and just moving everybody to group.

[00:25:41] Audra: And then they’ll do a session. So maybe they’ll say, Okay, this is a 90 day program. and there’s 10 of you and the cost is seven $7,500 each. And then at the end of that 90 days, everybody’s done. you have a little bit of cleanup on the back end where maybe somebody got stuck or they need a little bit more assistance, but for the most part, that’s it.

[00:26:02] You can offer a maintenance plan after that, where then at that point they deal with others or they pay a monthly retainer to have access to your skills or your input or whatever, wherever they’re at. That they got stuck at and they didn’t finish it. But, I’m finding a lot of people are moving to group coaching just for that reason.

[00:26:20] I get in, I built my system, I get 10 of you through it at one time, and then I, if I wanna take off for 30 days or 60 days before I run the next program, then I have that flexibility. Yep. Yeah. So that could be something that could help with the bandwidth issue, especially if you don’t have goals to bring in other coaches or, it’s just something you wanna manage.

[00:26:42] John Webster: Sure. Yeah. so you have a website that this is up on? I assume? I, Yeah. So publishing doctor.com. that’s the best way to, that I have for people to book a call with me. Okay. And then, so that call is then I go over is if, am I going to be able to help them? Sure. or if, or are they going to be able to utilize the services that I’m offering?

[00:27:05] So not everybody that I get on a call with, I’m not gonna be able to help everyone, of course. it’s just not gonna happen. there’s people that are, don’t really, want to write a book properly. They just I just need to figure out how to get this done. Okay. go to, get a book done in three days, dot com or something.

[00:27:21] but there, there are people that really do want the quality, that really do want the book because of what it can do. And. In, in, especially in the area of speaking because most speakers don’t have a book, and having that book lends so much more credibility that they can then land more speaking events

[00:27:47] Audra: and be able to charge higher speaking fees. So I’ve had a few clients over the year that we’ve put out books and it is a huge calling card. So one of the guys that I was working with last year, maybe the year before, he did real estate events. He’s got a book, now pre covid or even a couple years before that, getting on a Amazon as the best seller still carried a little bit of credibility.

[00:28:12] It was fairly newer. So it was still something that people, authors, smaller authors, not Brendan Burchard type authors, but Right. Some of the smaller guys were working towards. we got the book together, we got it published, we got it. meaning the marketing team, got it as a Amazon bestseller and then taking it to the event, being able to hand out copies to everybody that attended and say there’s 500 people in the audience. Then we also ran a, gifted to a friend and go on to Amazon and buy it for 99 cents right now, which again, it wasn’t, there’s no money there, at 99 cents after splits and everything else. It’s just the fact that it gets it out there, gets it into a bunch of other people’s hands and starts spreading the exposure that book exists.

[00:28:56] the goal was never to be a New York Times bestseller or anything like that. It was just to be able to help with credibility, help with expertise, nice calling card that went with them, and people appreciate that. There’s definitely value at that level. So what, where are you headed with all of this?

[00:29:14] Audra: So you’re gonna do the webinar, you’re trying to pick up a few more clients. is that’s the goal of it, or do you have a phase two of where you’re trying to take this business?

[00:29:23] John Webster: So where I’m taking it to is, and I’m probably going to be within the next, couple months, doubling or tripling my coaching pricing.

[00:29:30] Because what I’m doing is I want to take it more of an individualized, small group type of coaching program. Yeah. take people through that. So my clients. they get with me and they do this, and then they drag it out and I don’t want them to drag it out. Scope creep is a real thing.

[00:29:49] Yeah. I want them to have those results and I want them to get those results as quickly as possible. I don’t want them to take five years to write the book. I want them to be able to get that done in a maximum of 90 days, which, Okay. Theoretically you can get done very easily within 90 days.

[00:30:07] You can get it done within 30 days, through the writing formula that I teach people. Nice. Uh,and we’re not talking about like a small little thin thing, but actual, 300 page. Book. Okay. so about 40, 60,000 words or so. Okay. And so there’s a method and a formula that I go through on that writing formula to do that.

[00:30:27] And, the problem is when I have clients and then they procrastinate and then they do that. So it’s a really difficult to, try to get them to get them motivated to do that. So I have to, probably more of a focus small group charge higher prices and just really focus with them on this is what needs to get done.

[00:30:47] let’s take sit down like all day for the next two days and just map out your outline. Do you have an end to your program? Cause sometimes scope creep will happen. it happens to me too when I’m trying to build websites, when I’m trying to get new copy. in social media, it happens in, I think in all of our, where we’re dependent on them to deliver something.

[00:31:09] John Webster: it’s double edged sword. They can’t do it on their own, so they hire somebody, but if they could have done it, they would’ve already done it. And that’s where the coaching comes in, is you have that accountability partner that some, that person that’s pushing you. if I was in athletics, which I’m the farthest from athletics , but I remember, No. From high school and stuff, when you know you have the coach and is pushing at you like, okay. Even when I was in the military, I look at the drill sergeants as coaches. Yeah. so they’re there and they’re like, Nope, that’s not good enough.

[00:31:40] Keep knocking out those pushups and do more, And so you have a coach. Pushes you past what you perceive as your limitation. Agree. And that’s the whole objective is because if you can get pushed past where your limitation is, what you perceive that to be, that’s where you’re gonna start achieving your results.

[00:31:59] And so it, it’s important to have that coaching. yeah, people can do it on their own, but the problem that they have is they have that limitation in their mind, right? And so they have to get past that and they can’t get past that on their own. So that’s why they need somebody else to come in and show them how to get past that.

[00:32:18] so in, in all reality, it is something, the whole process that I teach somebody, I could, throw that together in a course. Here you go, pay me, $500,000, whatever for the course. And you can do it on your own, but they’re not gonna get the results because they’re still not able to get past their limitations.

[00:32:34] Audra: You, may have something there though. Maybe it’s creating a book version of what you’re doing, and then the coaching is extra. Meaning a lower ticket offer. Yeah. you can do it and you’re on your own. but you’re not gonna get the coaching. Coaching has been around forever, right?

[00:32:51] So everybody knows that at some point in their life, if they wanna up their game or get better results, are gonna have to hire a coach, right? I’ve hired coaches, I’ve been in masterminds. very expensive masterminds. And you always take away value from not just what you learn from the coach, but what you learn from being in the group, The different experiences that everybody brings to the table, but having some independent things that they can do on their own.

[00:33:17] Mm-hmm. , like, here’s a self-study course. and in this self-study course, maybe I’m available for questions twice a month. Or we do a group session once a week for an hour. If you have questions about this self study course this is where you come in and ask them, and maybe you price that at 2,500.

[00:33:36] I don’t know numbers, right? I’m just right throwing it out there. So if your program is 5,000 or 10,000, then maybe the self study course is 2,500 to get them in once they start struggling, but they realize the value of the content you’re teaching them. many times that you give them a discount to upgrade.

[00:33:55] So I’ll give you an example. Your course is, again, these are just numbers I’m picking out of the sky. The course is $2,500. They get to meet with you once a week. You’ve already got that commitment from them. But in week three I’m struggling a little bit and you know the 2,500 to the full price course, which is my one on one.

[00:34:15] Where I get more time with you is 10 grand. But because I’ve already paid the 2,500 I’m in, you discount it to 7,500 , and then I can upgrade and I get your full program. So it’s almost like a, try before you buy is really starting to get some momentum as far as a marketing tactic right now.

[00:34:35] , you can do try before you buy with your ads. You can do try before you buy with, some of the coaching, some of the course people that are selling courses, they’re saying, Come in, try it. If you like it, buy it. Russell Brunson just did this with his Click Funnels, event that is coming up, I think in the fall Live.

[00:34:55] Audra: Yeah. Try before you buy. I think I saw an email that said, Come and attend and if you like it, pay for it afterwards. That is really starting to take hold. But some of these people that were on the fence with you that couldn’t quite commit to whatever that price tag was. , maybe think about it and not that I’m trying to get you to pivot off of your direction.

[00:35:13] I’m just trying to throw some ideas out there. But if you’re gonna do a webinar that could roll into some self-study lessons and maybe they only get the lessons, set it down. Okay. It’s a 90 day program and you get week one in week one. And then that next week we’re gonna have the conversation for any questions that took place in week one and try to keep all your students in the same path, at least for our first round.

[00:35:39] Cause you’re gonna record it as they go through it. And then you’re able to, one, that stuff is indexed now so people can go find answers or watch recordings from previous classes. So that starts building up your library of very valuable content. that’s the only way you’re gonna get to a place where you can scale.

[00:35:59] Or do a little bit more than what one to one hours are. I don’t know about you, the days of working 60 and 80 hours , I’m doing it right now, but I’m okay with that, but I don’t wanna do it forever. Yeah, You want the business to make enough money that you can still get people, lots of great results.

[00:36:16] Audra: You can make a big impact and but still have a life, right? so that could help build content for down the road where you wanna pull your hours back a little bit, that can now start serving as your surrogate itself. So just definitely, yeah, just something to think about, but. the FAQs. you’ve been doing this a while, the questions don’t change.

[00:36:36] Maybe a little different variation. Every website I have built over the last 10 years , 80% of the questions are exactly the same from my client, Same with my students. When I’m teaching social media, when I’m teaching email marketing, everybody has the same questions. What tools do I use?

[00:36:52] Where do I start? What is this? What is that? Who’s my customer avatar? It’s all just rinse and repeat. So if you start recording some of this as you take your group through it, when you get to more of a group setting , it’s very valuable content down the road for you. All right. so what else?

[00:37:09] John Webster: Anything else on your mind or you wanna talk about? I don’t know. just thinking that, it’s like in all reality, getting a book done is a huge impact on pretty much any type of business that you run. And people think that, Oh, okay, I have to be, some spectacular person. even business owners. I know of a dentist in Hawaii that, he was pulling in roughly about a million a year in gross revenue.

[00:37:36] and he got a book published. And this, so this is not he’s not marketing anything. He’s not in the eCommerce space or marketing or speaking or anything. He’s just a dentist. Okay. but he got a book published hardcover book and, goes through and his whole book is about dentistry.

[00:37:55] and it’s going through all the different stuff that all of his clients have questions about. And it’s going through about, Okay, here’s what you need to know about crowns or root canals, or, this or that. And he goes through the whole book is all about dentistry and his stories about patients that he’s had and this and that.

[00:38:14] John Webster: And so instead of, you go to the dentist and then you get done a cleaning and they typically give you like a goody bag with toothpaste and a toothbrush and floss. And Yeah, he didn’t, So what he did is he took his book and gave each one of his clients’ book. So now throughout the whole island, he is the go-to dentist because everybody’s like, When they need a dentist and a referral, he’s like, Oh, go to this guy.

[00:38:41] He is the expert of dentistry around here. And literally his clientele, it exploded. It within just a couple, few years, he was now going from $1 million of revenue to over 7 million a revenue . Good for him. and all of that is just from writing a book and just getting that out because it establishes that credibility and authority, and that’s where, the word author comes from is authority.

[00:39:07] so that, that is in, and any type of business that you’re in, you can utilize having that book to establish that credibility to thus be able to get more clients, charge higher prices, get more speaking events, charge more for your coaching services, whatever it is that you’re doing.

[00:39:27] That’s very smart. See? So all of this type of stuff needs to be available somewhere out on the web for you. so think about another article that I’m working on is, Your Buyer’s Journey, like their digital user experience. Okay? And what I’m finding, based on everything that I’m reading today, right?

[00:39:46] , it evolves all the time with technology, but buyers really want to have the same experience or an extended experience from where they just saw you. So regards if they saw you in a physical office or in a meeting setting. When they go online and they go to Facebook or they go to Google reviews or they go to your website, they want to be able to have that experience continued.

[00:40:11] Audra: And some of the challenge that businesses are running into is there, Everything that they do online is very siloed. Meaning what they do on Facebook is different than what on their website, which is different than the messaging in their blog post, which is different than when you walk in their store.

[00:40:25] John Webster: And so confused buyers won’t buy. but what happens is they don’t know how to feel about your product or your service. So when I don’t know how to feel about it, I’m not gonna buy it because I have to feel something to buy it today. And it reminds me of something I saw recently about limbic messaging.

[00:40:43] so using, and Target uses this there, there’s some big brands that use this limbic messaging where they’re not selling or promoting any specific product or service. What they’re doing is selling you on a feeling that you already have, right?

[00:41:01] so what they’re basically saying is, this is what we believe in. we believe that family should be able to sit down together at dinner. We believe that, you should have the ability to do this. We believe in this. We believe in that. And so your limbic messaging, those people and they’re thinking, Hey, I believe in that stuff too.

[00:41:23] Audra: So this must be a good company to buy from. Exactly. And so that’s one of the, things that I saw recently is that messaging, how you present your message that can connect with the person is vitally important. if you think about it, you said you’ve been around and you’ve been self-employed for some time, but the evolution of being offline, people would come to your location by what you had, you’d build relationships with them face to face.

[00:41:50] They’d come back for more. I went through that whole thing. I had coffee shops in California and I did the same thing. I had the same customers at every location, same time of day. I knew who they were, where they lived, what they did for a living, who their children were, what was important to them, and you get to build that.

[00:42:08] But online, it takes that away. So we evolve into stores and then the, now it’s, Oh my gosh, I could buy this stuff online. But then it gets even more personal where everything is commoditized now, right? So then you’re either competing out price and they don’t care who you are as long as there’s a refund policy, or you go the other direction where you are getting into more personalization and you are invested in them getting whatever result your product is giving them or whatever problem it solves, right?

[00:42:39] I think the ones that can evolve into this other direction with personalization, , you’ll continue to strive. but online courses and coaching and all that, based on everything that I’m reading is even going to get more competitive than it is today. it’s tough. I have a lot of coach friends and no matter how good their program is, because so much competition is coming up.

[00:43:02] , it’s tougher and tougher. Like, how do I stand out? I’m a results coach, or I’m a sales coach, or, I help build funnels, whatever it is. how are you any different than anybody else? If Bill does the same thing, even though he doesn’t have a status, he’s only gonna charge me 10 grand. You’re trying to charge me 25.

[00:43:21] Audra: So I’m gonna base it on the result unless there’s something else that comes out of that to justify that extra money.

[00:43:28] John Webster: Or you have a JV partnership when you can get somebody else that says, Hey, go to this person because they’re the best at what they do. And now, again, like the book, your credibility has just skyrocketed it, right?

[00:43:42] Because now you have somebody that they already know, like trust. Yep. Like in trust that then is recommending that you use that person. And so that’s where those JV partnerships come in to play, a lot more, which is what I’m exploring, going implement within the next coming months.

[00:43:59] Is that now I could go to somebody that maybe they have a list of a hundred thousand. people on their list that are all speakers, right? Those, that list of all those people know that person. And then I do a joint webinar with them . And now that goes out to that list and now those people are like, Oh, okay, I see this, I can see the value in that.

[00:44:21] Audra: And they basically, now they become my clients as well. And yet even with the market as saturated as there is, there’s still great opportunities, especially in the JV space. Have you joined Facebook groups like the podcast one that we’re in, that you’ve had Facebook groups?

[00:44:38] John Webster: I’m a member of probably 300 Facebook. Oh my gosh. So it’s hard to keep track of everything. and so it’s hard enough to keep track of everybody that I’m connected to on Facebook. Let alone going through and all the groups as well. and so that’s, one of the things that really irritates me about Facebook and the way that people are operating is they’ll set up a Facebook group for their training program.

[00:45:02] Or their course so rather than do the course on their website, they do the course in the Facebook group and it just doesn’t work out the same.

[00:45:11] Audra: It doesn’t, but there’s pros and cons sides of that. I am not a fan of doing my training courses on real estate I don’t own, you can still charge, right?

[00:45:21] Facebook’s made it easy enough that you can charge a membership or work through the payment side of it, but the masses or the data behind it is people are already spending their time on Facebook. Don’t try to move them off. But it doesn’t give you the full experience. Feeds are hard to do. The course content, you can’t lay it out properly.

[00:45:42] from a student perspective, I’m safe place as you, I don’t find it valuable. I get more frustrated or end up going down rabbit holes of, Oh, what was that video? And she did that. And then I’m over here and then I went over here and I was like, Wait, I got online to take that course. But so for me, I’m not a fan either, but many people do it and it works out well for them.

[00:46:01] John Webster: Yeah. Yeah. I prefer to move my people onto real estate that I own, that I manage, that I can have some kind of control over. Controls is such a weird word, but, I wanna be able to control the experience they get with me. And when you’re on a third party tool, like that’s, It is. Yeah. and so even with my time, I don’t really spend a lot of time on Facebook necessarily.

[00:46:25] I’ll go on there, maybe check for some messages, maybe, do a few posts,things like that. But yeah, as far as the groups, it’s I joined the group, but Facebook makes it so difficult Yeah. to do anything because it’s not in an orderly fashion. it’s okay, I don’t want to see everything randomized as, as far as what Facebook thinks is important to me, right?

[00:46:47] John Webster: I wanna see things chronologically, and the order is supposed to be , right? So if I go to a group and it’s the same thing in the group chaos. If I go to a group for a training, I’m having to search through all sorts of different stuff to try to find, okay, here’s number one, here’s number two video.

[00:47:04] Audra: And it just makes things really difficult. I taught a Instagram class, and something I told them is, That’s good that you can get on Facebook and just go in to be a producer or a student versus being a consumer. And I think that’s what happens with a lot of small businesses.

[00:47:20] They get onto social media to work, right? To do their posts or engage with their clients, and then they see Facebook pops up, something from their mother, from their friend, or somebody they went out with. And then for, you forgot the whole purpose and you’re like This social media doesn’t work.

[00:47:38] I’ve been on it for an hour and I haven’t even done my work yet. And I think there’s a lesson there to be learned that you do have to get on social media to produce right, to do your job. And then if you wanna be a consumer at some point, then schedule that separately. But trying to do it both on the same time, good luck.

[00:47:58] Right? Results are typically not very good. All right. So you’re gonna do a webinar. I wanna check back with you. I wanna hear from you when you get it up and running. I’d love to go through it if you’re open to feedback. Sure, absolutely. And See what can do.

[00:48:13] So in my initial thing, I thought, Wow, he’s, you’ve got a tough sell considering what’s available for almost nothing. , but hearing why you do it and the value of what you can deliver through that, it’s do I buy a, I don’t even know what cheap cars are today, a Hyundai, or do I buy, a Range Rover?

[00:48:31] John Webster: There are two different things, two different status, two different customers. Now I see the value of what you’re doing. Yeah. You can go to the used car lot, you can a Ford Pinto, it’s still gonna get you from point A to point B, or you can go and you can get the newest Porsche or Ferrari or Lamborghini or whatever, the Bentley or things like that.

[00:48:53] And that’s essentially what I teach people to do is with the book, is to, so that way you’re coming across with that quality, and so it’s the same thing. If I’m looking at,purchasing a home and I go get a real estate agent and they show up in a 20 year old beater car, I’m gonna think twice about the capabilities of, or even if I’m selling my home expertise, their expertise, I’m selling my home.

[00:49:19] Do I really believe that this real estate agent’s gonna be able to sell my home? they’re driving around a 20 year old beater right now if they drive up and it’s, like within. Past couple years, Model car, even if it’s in a lower end, maybe it is a Ford Expedition or whatever, But I know that this is somebody that, hey, this is, they’re serious about it. Yeah. this is a little, they, it’s that image thing. And image really matters, on credibility and so if you’re producing a book, you wanna make sure that image matches what you have everywhere else.

[00:49:52] And for example, there was a guy that was selling, real estate coaching. Okay. And, I can’t remember the, I don’t wanna give out the name cuz it’s irrelevant. yeah. but he was selling real estate coaching and this guy, he’s phenomenal. He’s great at what he does.

[00:50:06] He has a great, coaching program, Really good. His videos are like, they’re completely, top notch produced videos and stuff. And it’s here, go to my website, buy my book. I’m like, Okay, this is great. Buy my book. It’s, you get it. He’s like giving it away for free plus 7 95, Or actually it wasn’t even seven, It was 9 95.

[00:50:27] shipping and handling. He’s giving the book away for free. I get this book in the mail and I literally like I don’t want anything to do with him anymore. Literally, this book was 60 pages. Oh, 60 pages. Print on demand through Amazon has errors throughout it. The first 30 pages is the actual book that he was trying to promote, and the other 30 pages was some other random information of something else.

[00:50:58] John Webster: And I’m like, this guy is he could have done so much more, but he just completely shoots his credibility with that book. and that’s what I don’t want people to do. It’s like even, you could be the best at what you’re doing, but if you are putting out, like I said before, it’s if I have a 10, 20, $30,000 coaching program, right?

[00:51:19] And I’m like, Oh, here, let me, I’m passing around little sheets of paper that I cut out, written my name on it and Here you go. Here’s my contact him. it just doesn’t work the same. no, and that’s a great point. And it ties back to the personalization thing that I was just talking about.

[00:51:35] Audra: Your experience with him on the, this was good. Is this was good. His videos were topnotch and then you actually get the book. He completely ruined all the credibility that he had built up with you off all this other stuff. If he was doing that well with those other things, he would’ve been better off to hire a ghost writer and publish a real book.

[00:51:55] So he didn’t diminish his brand because of it. Yeah. That’s too bad. Unfortunately not everybody thinks through all of that. Yeah. or you get the physical product and it’s not what you expected or what they hyped it up to be when they sold it, which is super challenging. Yeah. you know what, I got a book that’s about 225 pages that’s written.

[00:52:17] I still gotta go back and do some editing, but it Sure. It goes with the same philosophy of what you said. I started with, developing courses. , but there’s highlights that I wanna pull out of each one of the courses. Actually, it was the other way around. I started the book. Okay. And what the book is it goes into each channel of marketing.

[00:52:37] So like email marketing, what is it, why to do it, how to do it, where to do it, all that kind of stuff. Like foundation stuff that would end up being a book that you would sit on the shelf. It has your first 90 day plan on each one of these. So when people are struggling in their marketing, you can get super lost by going online and trying to Google it.

[00:52:57] , there’s 50 ways to do email marketing effectively. You just need one though. And most people cannot go through and pick just one. So I’m writing a book to map all that out. the book kind of ties into the courses I’m creating for the same reason.

[00:53:11] Audra: Now, mine so much wasn’t to turn into coaching or to, speaking per se. Mine was more just to tie to the credibility of the online community. But, I definitely see the value of doing it right and what you can take out of. And I think for you, I didn’t look at your website, so I don’t have any feedback there, but I think you’re getting your message out, getting on lots of podcasts.

[00:53:37] Following the webinar thing and the joint venture thing. Joint Ventures, because there’s so much competition right now, I have edged forward as far as marketing tactics that are working right now. Because,there’s some serious, people out there that have built some ridiculous lists and if you’ve got a product or service that can help their audience, they’re all about it.

[00:53:58] But you gotta make sure that your brands spot on. So before I promote anybody, I look at their website, I wanna read their reviews, I wanna see how they show up, I wanna know how they talk to people. just because you’re successful online doesn’t mean that you’re a good person and I don’t wanna pick time my brand to that.

[00:54:14] So it’s just making sure you have all your stuff out there. Remember, we get to control that narrative, what people think about us or see about us. . So it’s important that we actually do that work and get it out there. Yes, definitely. All right where would you recommend they start?

[00:54:31] John Webster: For somebody that was to explore this of publishing a book? like with me or just in general? maybe just in general to start, because again, if they don’t know you what kind of questions should they be considering? Kinda what should they explore? writing a book and, there’s a lot that goes into it and a lot of people really don’t realize there’s over a hundred different things that on a checklist that you need to do to get it done correctly and.

[00:54:58] on your own. Yeah. You could probably hit maybe 20 or 30 of them. Wow. but to get every single one of them, you gotta know what they are and how to navigate through that. And so that’s what I teach people. One of the biggest challenges that people have is, and they wonder why their marketing with their book is not working is because they don’t own the domain of their book.

[00:55:20] John Webster: So that’s one of the first things. If you have a title of your book already, you wanna own the domain, and, but I also take people, but before you get that, I take people through a title formula. It’s let’s, okay, let’s focus on getting the title like super, compelling.

[00:55:36] And so I take people through a title formula. Then once you have that, then go get the domain for it. there, there’s a lot that goes into that. And so one of the,but even then, and I take my clients, I have vetted vendors that I work with that I recommend out to my clients.

[00:55:50] and they’re free to use anyone that they want. Although, it’s Hey, it’s like I can’t guarantee the results of anyone else that you do, but these are the ones that I’ve worked with. I know what kind of results that they get. Okay. but they’re, and even then, if they wanna go work with a different editor, then I recommend, I’m like, Great.

[00:56:05] John Webster: Go work with a different editor. These are the types of qualities that you’d be looking for, Okay. Or this is the cover designer, this is the type of qualities that you’re looking for in a cover designer. so there’s a lot that goes into it. It’s, I don’t really know where to, without coaching somebody I don’t really know how to get them to start.

[00:56:23] But I think the bottom line is, I guess I could say is that the biggest thing to do is just get everything out of your head. And that’s where a lot of people run into an issue on writing a book. They don’t know what to write. They start off with chapter one. They get through the first, couple pages of that.

[00:56:39] They think this is crap. They go back, try to edit it. They try to go back and edit it again. They throw it out, they start over. And the thing is, you wanna get everything out of your head. The first thing to do is outline what you want to convey to the reader. So you want anywhere from about 12 to 25 major, components of the messaging that you wanna get out to the reader.

[00:57:04] And then that’s gonna be the framework to start the outline. And then you just wanna get everything out. I have clients that like, Oh, I’ve done this, speech and I’ve done this speech and I’ve have notes here and notes there and notes everywhere. And, it’s okay, just get it all out into one file, then work through it, and then we work through that.

[00:57:24] so that’s the biggest holdback for people is that they don’t get it all out. And so then it takes them forever to write the book. Yeah, that’s really what you wanna need is, the more that you can just do a whole entire brain dump of everything, even if it is, it isn’t even, quality enough to even do anything with.

[00:57:44] Audra: At least you have that. All out and now you can start working with it. I think that’s great advice. because normally if you’re at a place where you’re ready to write a book, you have too many things going on. I could talk about this and maybe I should talk about this, and what about this? And Oh yeah, I remember I have this.

[00:58:00] And then it’s so overwhelming that you don’t know where to start. So I think that’s great advice. The other thing I was gonna say is, I think in your marketing, I would definitely make sure that you bring up some of the stories like you just did for the dentist.

[00:58:13] . And the reason why is. That’s not typical. So somebody that has some kind of expertise, like a chiropractor or a plumber or a, telecom person, they’re not thinking about a book of being any value or any interest to anybody. But you just made a very valid point of something that somebody did as a dentist who would’ve thought, who would ever wanna read all that?

[00:58:36] and, probably eight outta 10 people don’t even correct the book to a point of reading it from cover to cover. Just the fact of they did. It’s a credibility. It was nicely done. It swapped out to something new. So there’s so many huge benefits to that, I guarantee you but the average person in, some of these other industries,

[00:58:57] Audra: it wouldn’t even come on for them. So I think, a marketing campaign around that would be beautiful and it can work in other industries too.

[00:59:04] John Webster: I know of an author that he’s a contractor. Okay. And,and so he would, he is having issues with, people going in, they’re doing work at a home and, they’re just completely messing it up and stuff like that.

[00:59:18] And so he wrote this book and it’s,Basically don’t poop in other people’s toilets, type of, I think is the title or something like that. Oh, nice. but he wrote this book is basically, this is the dos and don’ts, type of thing. And how, basically for the people that are doing the work, but also for the homeowners of what to expect.

[00:59:37] Audra: So he’s basically bridging the homeowners and the people that are subcontractors and things like that, to where that, hey, this is the expectations and how we can work through this and what to do. And but he wrote a book about that. I think that some of the challenge, some people with an expertise have the knowledge to write a book, have interest in writing a book, but they’re like, eh, who would ever wanna know about this? And I think you could make a great spin out of that. That could be a great marketing campaign for you. Of thinking, Hey, I got all this knowledge you think is useless.

[01:00:09] John Webster: Let me show you 10 ways that you can take that expertise and turn it into something fun or something you know, informative or that your audience would want. Yeah. Okay. All right. So any last words tell me? so last words, if people are interested in learning more about what I do, feel free to, jump on my website publishing doctor.com and book a call with me.

[01:00:32] there’s no charge for that. I do it complimentary, so that way I can see if it’s something where I’m gonna be able to help, or not. and yeah, and then if you’re interested in my latest book that I have, actually it is just coming off the printer right now. So this is my third book.

[01:00:48] but it’s called, uh, Mastering Your Fate. Nice self leadership. We didn’t even talk about books that you published. No, we didn’t. But this one is, it’s not available yet, but it will be in another couple weeks. And so that one will also, I’ll put a link to it on my publishing doctor.com website when it becomes available.

[01:01:07] Okay. So what about a commitment? When’s your webinar gonna be? Cause I wanna check back with you when it’s ready to go.

[01:01:15] John Webster: Huh, tentatively. I might do a, just a quick run on this Thursday. Oh, okay. so it’s that Ready? All right. Yeah. that’s awesome. yes and no. I have to prepare a little bit, but tentatively yeah, this Thursday.

[01:01:30] Audra: Okay. but definitely on the 21st, probably 21st. Okay. All right. we’ll do a follow up afterwards, after you get the groove and see how things are going and see how webinars are working out for you. All right. thank you so much for your time today. I hope you were able to get a take a few things away.

[01:01:47] I definitely learned a lot about the differences of publishing and, the value of what we can actually do with a book, which is great. I think I knew a lot of what you said, but it’s been so long because I’m so bombarded with the Amazon self-publishing world that it’s been pushed back like, Oh, that’s old school, or, there’s not that many people doing that anymore.

[01:02:08] But I think it needs to be brought to the surface that you still can create quality books with the right help and, get it done for a reasonable price. Sure. All right, John. thank you for your time. I look forward to connecting again soon. All right. Thank you. All right.

[01:02:22] Take care. bye. Bye.